● Also, the semiconductor industry is, of course global. India has an ambition to build a thriving semiconductor industry, building on the companies based there that have been designing chips for many, many years. Does the country have the infrastructure to make good on its ambitions?
BRIAN SANTO: On EE Times this week, we have a story written by Nitin Dahad about some M&A action in India. HCL, a sizeable IT company, purchased Sankalp Semiconductor for $25 million. India has long had the ambition of fostering a thriving semiconductor industry. Was the acquisition of Sankalp a sign of a growing chip industry in India? AspenCore global editor in chief Bolaji Ojo talked to Nitin about that.
BRIAN SANTO: 本周EE Times有一篇由Nitin Dahad撰写的新闻，是关于印度半导体行业并购案的故事。HCL是一家规模较大的IT公司，以2500万美元收购了Sankalp Semiconductor公司。长期以来，印度一直抱有培育蓬勃发展半导体产业的雄心。 收购Sankalp是否标志着印度芯片行业的快速发展？AspenCore全球总编Bolaji Ojo与Nitin就此进行了一场对话。
BOLAJI OJO: Hello, Nitin. Good to speak with you. You are in London attending an industry conference. How is that going?
BOLAJI OJO: 你好，Nitin。很高兴和你联线。你正在伦敦参加一场行业会议，有什么收获吗？
NITIN DAHAD: That's going well, yes. Hi, Bolaji. I'm in London attending the Future Horizons six-month Industry Update and Forecast, semiconductor industry forecast.
NITIN DAHAD: 是的，Bolaji你好，一切都还不错。我正在伦敦参加Future Horizons半年行业动态及预测主题会议，展望半导体行业前景。
BOLAJI OJO: How is that looking? Are we looking at another cycle to be... is it the beginning of another down cycle, or is it just a flatlining that we kind of expect a recovery within months or within the next six months to a year?
BOLAJI OJO: 会议怎么样？我们是在寻找另一个周期吗？是另一个下行周期的开始？还是我们希望在几个月内，或未来六个月至一年内有个平稳的复苏发展期？
NITIN DAHAD: Malcolm Penn, who runs Future Horizons, has been telling us, impressing on us, today is that over the last 30+ years the industry has gone on a sort of very constant 10% growth in terms of IC unit sales. And it's cyclical in terms of supply and demand, and we'll see that upturn again coming in 2020.
NITIN DAHAD: Future Horizons的负责人Malcolm Penn说的话给我们留下了深刻印象——在过去30多年中，半导体行业的IC单位销售额增长率一直保持在非常稳定的10%。而且这是周期性的供需关系，我们将在2020年看到这种周期性增长。
BOLAJI OJO: Excellent. Well, one of the areas where... I know Malcolm Penn has been following this industry for quite a while. And it's interesting that just this recent few days you wrote an article about India, saying that India is branching out into chip design. I wonder if he had anything to say about that part of the world, including the rest of Asia. That would include China by the way.
BOLAJI OJO: 非常棒。好的，我知道马尔科姆·佩恩（Malcolm Penn）关注这一领域有很长时间了。有趣的是，就在近几天，你写了一篇有关印度的文章，说印度正在向芯片设计领域进军。 我想知道马尔科姆是否对印度，以及包括中国在内的亚洲其他地区有什么话要说。
NITIN DAHAD: So he kind of talked about the US-China... sort of the impact of the US-China trade war. But also I think it's quite interesting in that China I think focused on... Basically he said that the US and China are very strong in the technology, in the talent. But China has a talent, and they're using a lot of equipment – for example the capital equipment, which is produced by non-Chinese companies – and the US can pull the plug anytime. But I think the issue is always going to be, is that shooting themselves in the foot? Obviously it will hurt their biggest company, like Apple.
NITIN DAHAD: 马尔科姆谈到了中美贸易战，主要是中美贸易战带来的影响。我也觉得很有趣，因为我认为他比较关注中国。他大致意思是说，美国和中国在技术和人才方面都非常强大。但是中国有种天赋，同时他们正运用多种设备，例如资本（密集型）设备，这不是由中国公司生产的——美国可以随时拔掉“插头”。 但我认为结果可能会，美国会不会搬起石头砸自己的脚？显然，这些举措也将伤害美国最大的公司，如苹果。
BOLAJI OJO: Excellent. Well just to kind of return to the subject of India, the article you wrote talking about India's growing expansion into chip design, I was asking myself, Well, India and Indians have been involved in this market for decades. So what's changed? Is it something new? Or is it an expansion? Or is it now these designs are becoming much more local than before?
BOLAJI OJO: 很棒。好的，回到印度这个话题。你写的一篇文章谈到印度在芯片设计方面的增长。我问自己：印度和印度人已经涉足这个市场几十年了。有什么变化？ 有新东西吗？ 还是说这是一次产业扩展？ 还是现在这些设计相比以前更加本地化了？
NITIN DAHAD: It's actually quite interesting. I never understood why... India's always been talking about trying to create its own semiconductor manufacturing, but because of the infrastructure it's never succeeded. And if you look at the semiconductor industry association there, they've always talked about wanting to be self-sufficient just like China has been talking about being self-sufficient. But if you take that aside, actually, from the design ecosystem point of view, it's been very strong. And that's because Texas Instruments, which established there back in the '80s, and then you had Intel and then obviously Synopsys and Cadence. What they discovered very early on is, Indians are very talented in terms of software engineering and in terms of a lot of the computer science and the design engineering. And what that's meant is, they have grown huge off-shoring centers, but those off-shoring centers now evolved, because as everybody moves up the value chain, they've evolved. And you're seeing -- as I wrote in my article -- you're seeing the Texas Instruments children (i.e., the companies that came out of people who are experienced designing chips at Texas Instruments in Bangalore) are now sort of creating their second or third enterprises. And a lot of them are in the RF space, the analog space, which is quite interesting.
NITIN DAHAD: 这实际上挺有趣的。我从来不明白究竟为什么...印度一直在谈论要尝试创建自己的半导体制造业，但是由于其基础设施的原因，他们从未成功。而且，如果你了解一下印度的半导体行业协会，他们总是谈论要自给自足，就像中国一直在谈论要自给自足一样。不过实际上，如果从设计生态系统的角度来看，印度是非常强大的。因为德州仪器（Texas Instruments）成立于80年代，然后是Intel，再是Synopsys和Cadence。他们很早就发现，印度人在软件工程以及许多计算机科学和设计工程方面非常有才华。这就意味着，他们已经建立了庞大的离岸外包中心，但是这些离岸外包中心现在正在发展，因为随着每个人在价值链中的上升，他们也在发展。你可以看到——正如我在文章中所写的，德州仪器（TI）的孩子们，即那些来自在班加罗尔（Bangalore）的德州仪器（TI）从事芯片设计工作的人正在创立的第二或第三家企业。其中很多是在RF领域，或模拟领域，这是很有趣的现象。
BOLAJI OJO: What seems to be missing for me, when you look at North America -- in fact, even when you look at China -- you do have certain companies, the big name companies in western Europe and in North America. Then you have companies like TSMC in Taiwan and some up and coming companies in China itself. What is the landscape like in India? If Indians really want to play a role in semiconductor design, well, you also need to have some home-grown companies that are big enough to take on the big players in the global environment.
BOLAJI OJO: 对我来说，缺失的部分是——当我们转向北美时，实际上，即使看中国，你也可以说出一些具体的公司来，就像西欧和北美的知名公司。 然后，拥台湾有台积电（TSMC）等公司，中国大陆本身也有一些新兴公司。印度的情况如何呢？ 如果印度人真的想在半导体设计中发挥作用，那么他们还需要拥有一些本土公司，且这些公司必须足够大，可以在全球环境中扮演重要角色。
NITIN DAHAD: Yes, that's right. I mean, one of the things I think I'm not seeing signs of yet is where we'll get those big players. What I'm seeing is the growth of small companies which are then gobbled up by larger companies. And one of the examples I quote in my article is Cosmic Circuits. It was acquired by Cadence back in I think 2013. And the founder of that then went on to work with Liputan and invest in other companies. And he's on the boards of various other companies. So what we're seeing is this sort of bubbling up of little companies and growing. I'm not really seeing that big sign yet. And I think that probably is because there's not -- as I say in my article -- maybe the funding at the levels of Silicon Valley, for example, is not going in. And then so what they're looking for is exit. Anything from $25 to $250 million as opposed to growing that billion-dollar company.
NITIN DAHAD: 是的，说得很对。我的意思是，我认为我尚未看到的迹象之一就是我们将在哪里找到这些大公司。我所看到的是小公司的成长，之后被大公司吞并。我在文章中引用的示例之一是Cosmic Circuits公司。记得大概是在2013年，它就被Cadence收购了。那位创始人随后与陈立武一起工作，并向其他公司投资。 他还是其他多个公司的董事会成员。 因此，我们所看到的，是一些小公司的蓬勃发展和成长。我还没有真正看到大公司。 而且我认为这可能是因为缺少——就像我在文章中所说那样——也许是因为没有像硅谷这样级别的资金投入。小公司发展到差不多时，他们寻找的前景就是退出。 以从2500万到2.5亿美元不等的价格出售，而不是发展成为市值十亿美元的（独角兽）公司。
BOLAJI OJO: Well, China has done very well, at least at what they're trying to do. They are funding some of these startups. What is the government's role? Like in India this moment. I haven't seen a single item that says, the Indian government is putting out or setting up a forum of $10, $15, $20 billion to support a home-grown IC market.
BOLAJI OJO: 好吧，至少中国在他们试图做的事情上是做得很好的。他们为一些初创公司提供资金。 政府的作用是什么？ 正如眼下的印度，我还没有看到一个单独的项目，印度政府正在推出或设立一个100、150、200亿美元的大基金来支持本土IC市场。
NITIN DAHAD: They've talked about it, but I've not seen any signs, apart from stimulating startup ecosystems, I've not seen any other signs in terms of infrastructure for sort of larger projects. But there have been, as part of the national electronics policy and part of the Make In India campaign. People are talking about manufacturing and then stimulating some design ecosystems, but I've not seen any more than that, as far as I can see. Maybe I'm missing it, but I've not seen it.
NITIN DAHAD: 他们谈论过这个话题，但是除了激励初创企业生态系统外，我没有看到任何其他迹象，就大型项目的基础设施而言，我没有看到其他迹象。 但是，这个主题已经是国家电子政策和“印度制造”计划的一部分。人们谈论制造业，然后激励一些设计生态系统，但据我所知，我了解到的就只有这些。也许我错过了一些还没看过的信息。
BOLAJI OJO: Okay. I guess, during your next trip to India, that would be the next thing that we at AspenCore and EETimes will be looking for you to find out. I know we are trying at this moment to get some additional correspondents over there, so we'll be setting them loose on helping us to dig up information about the ecosystem there and how the private sector and the government are going to be working on building that Indian IC market that everybody's looking at. I mean, 1.1 billion people? That's a very large market, right?
BOLAJI OJO: 好的。我想，你下次访问印度时， AspenCore和EE Times届时也会需要你去那里探索。据我了解，我们现在正尝试在印度扩招一些通讯员，因此我们将给他们空间，以帮助我们收集有关印度的生态系统，以及私营企业和政府将如何开展工作的信息。人人都在关注着印度的IC市场。我是指，印度拥有11亿人口？ 那是一个很大的市场，对吗？
NITIN DAHAD: A very large market. And I actually head out there maybe once or twice a year. And I'll be going again towards the end of this year. So yes, definitely be exploring again. And then, as you said, we'll also be expanding our network there.
NITIN DAHAD: 一个非常大的市场。 实际上我每年可能去一或两次印度。我将在今年年底再去一次。所以，我肯定会再次探索印度市场。 然后，正如你所说，我们还将在此扩展我们自己的信息网络。
BOLAJI OJO: Fantastic. Thanks again, Nitin. It's always a pleasure to catch up with you. What's next on your plate?
BOLAJI OJO: 太棒了。再次感谢Nitin。和你畅聊总是很愉快。你的下一步计划是什么？
NITIN DAHAD: I'm actually off to the MEMs and Sensors Conference in Grenoble next week. And then the European Microwave Conference in Paris a couple of weeks later. So yes. Those are sort of on my agenda, immediate agenda.
NITIN DAHAD: 实际上我下周要去参加在格勒诺布尔举行的MEMs和传感器会议。几周后前往巴黎参加在那举行的欧洲微波会议。这些是我的日程，近期日程。
BOLAJI OJO: Well, we've touched on India. So I'm going to be probably at Grenoble with you, or if not we'll catch up in Paris. So following up on India, I guess we will be talking about the European IC market next. Nice speaking with you again, Nitin. And have a wonderful week.
BOLAJI OJO: 好的，我们已经涉足了印度。接下来，我可能会和你谈谈格勒诺布尔，也或许聊聊巴黎。继续跟进印度的情况，我想接下来我们将讨论欧洲IC市场。Nitin，很高兴再次交流。祝你有美好的一周。
NITIN DAHAD: Thank you, Bolaji.
NITIN DAHAD: 感谢Bolaji。