BRIAN SANTO:I’m Brian Santo, EE Times Editor in Chief, and you're listening to EE Times on Air. This is your Briefing for the week ending November 22nd.
我是EE Times的主编Brian Santo，您正在收听的是EE Times on Air。接下来请听截至11月22日的本周播报。
In this episode…
And China has just set aside another $28 billion to further develop its semiconductor industry. There are a lot of questions about China’s Big Fund. What might be the best way to spend that big of a fund? Is that enough to help China catch up? And what if it does?
This is Charles Tan, a Chinese semiconductor executive, who just concluded a stint as the president of the China Electronics Distribution Association. International editor Junko Yoshida interviewed him recently in Shenzhen.
这是Charles Tan（谈荣锡），一位中国半导体行业的高管，他刚刚卸任中国电子元器件分销协会会长职务。 近期，我们的国际编辑Junko Yoshida在深圳采访了他。
CHARLES TAN: It takes time, right? It’s a good thing for Chinese companies. They look at different options, number one. Number two, it's actually not bad news for American companies, because you probably would have a competitor five years from now rather than 25 years from now. I think some of the American companies also need to have a little bit of competition or pressure for them to continue working really hard. Continue investing to the resources. A good challenge is not a bad thing.
CHARLES TAN: 这需要时间，对吗？“大基金”对中国公司来说是个好消息。第一，他们能有更多选择。 第二，对于美国公司而言，这实际上并不是一个坏消息，因为他们可能在5年而不是25年后才拥有竞争对手。我认为一些美国公司正需要有一点竞争或是压力，才能真正地继续努力工作，继续对资源进行投资。一个强有力的挑战并不是一件坏事。
China has been slowly, methodically building a self-sufficient semiconductor industry. In the last five years or so, manufacturing of printed circuit boards has been consolidated largely in China. The market for IC substrates is moving to China, and there are now several Chinese companies among the global leaders in chip packaging. And more than five years ago, China organized what it called The Big Fund, which has distributed roughly $14 billion among 23 semiconductor companies.
And what did The Big Fund achieve? Five years, multiple mergers, several acquisitions and a few IPOs later, China has a modest foundation of semiconductor expertise upon which it can build. It has foundries able to produce chips that the country’s budding IC design houses can rely on.
But to create a world-class semiconductor ecosystem, China needs to build on that base... and it intends to do so. The country recently announced Big Fund Phase 2, with roughly double the amount of money of Phase 1, nearly $29 billion.
I asked Junko what Phase 2 will be about.
JUNKO YOSHIDA: Phase 2, they say that they want to spend money for the supply chain. And supply chain in this case means various technologies that they need to build certain systems. But the problem here, though, even in Phase 1 they spent money here and there. As a result that they spent a lot more money for their manufacturing technologies. But in reality, they spent a lot of money in design houses, IP developers. So it was all over the map. So I think that is going to happen for Phase 2 as well, even though when you say "supply chain," it is not about service of the supply chain, but supply chain of key ingredients, key technologies and components for the Chinese electronics industry.
JUNKO YOSHIDA: 第二阶段，他们说想投资供应链。在这种情况下，供应链意味着他们需要构建特定系统的各种技术。但问题是，在第一阶段，他们在各个方面都花了些钱。结果是他们在制造技术上花费了更多的钱。但实际上他们在设计公司、IP开发人员上花了很多钱。基本上行业内各个领域都涉及到了。 所以我认为第二阶段也将发生这种情况，即使你说是想投“供应链”。这与供应链服务无关，而在于中国电子行业的关键元素、关键技术和组件的供应链 。
BRIAN SANTO: Junko and I were in Shenzhen recently, and while we were there, we spoke to several industry participants about The Big Fund. One was Charles Tan, who we heard from at the beginning of this episode. Junko mentioned to him that she had been told that Big Fund 2 would focus on the supply chain. This is his response.
BRIAN SANTO: Junko和我最近去了深圳，我们在深圳的时候与多个行业参与者就“大基金”这个话题进行了交谈。其中一位是Charles Tan，我们在本期开头可以听到他的发言。Junko对Charles说，她被告知“大基金”第二阶段将专注于供应链。接下来是Charles的回答。
CHARLES TAN: I think the supply chain, you’re referring to more on the service side in the supply chain when the others — your friend — was telling you he's looking at more from technology products or the mix of the technologies. So if there is something specifically, if it's controlled by the other party or somebody else.
CHARLES TAN: 我认为说到供应链，你指的更多是供应链中服务方面的内容，而其他人——你的朋友，告诉你他正从技术产品或技术组合中寻找更多信息。因此，是否有特定内容，是否由另一方或其他人控制。
JUNKO YOSHIDA: Missing parts.
JUNKO YOSHIDA: 这是缺失的部分。
CHARLES TAN: Missing parts. So I think that's what he was referring to. China may be led by the government funds, as well as some of the funds —actually quite an amount of funds — from the private sector. So they all come together. Today, one of the key focus is on the semiconductor side. So if there's one particular device, you cannot require to complete an entire product, and that really is a major challenge for that particular company. So rather than, they always have a Plan B.
CHARLES TAN: 是缺失的部分。我认为这就是你朋友想表达的意思。目前中国电子行业可能由政府资金以及一些——实际上是相当大量的来自私有机构的资金在主导。他们都汇聚到一起了。如今关注的重点之一是半导体行业。如果只有一个特定的设备，你就不能完善整个产品，这对于特定公司而言确实是一个重大挑战。因此他们总是有一个Plan B。
No difference if you look at the American company Apple. When they do the supply chain, I would be extremely surprised if they only look at the one supplier, one particular company. So they always have a Plan B. They probably have a Plan C. So I think that's understandable.
你如果看看美国的苹果公司，也不会发现什么不同。如果他们在建立供应链时只关注一个供应商，一家特定的公司，那我会感到非常惊讶。 他们总是有一个Plan B，甚至可能有一个Plan C。所以我认为这是可以理解的。
Semiconductor is such a complex. It's not about money. It's not only about time. It's about expertise, knowledge, management — every single factor. If you look at all the giants, their success — semiconductor companies in the market — they don't come overnight. In my opinion, it probably takes one generation, maybe two, to reach that level. So I don't think it's immediate impact, but rather it's a more strategic side.
By the way, if China's not closing its door. It's not saying, "I have a Plan B, so I don't need a Plan A." I think companies... They're business people. As long as the technology and the price and the service are good. So they always want alternatives, rather than just rely on one particular source.
顺便一提，如果中国不设壁垒。这并不是说，“我有一个Plan B，所以我不需要一个Plan A。” 我认为公司...他们是商人。只要技术、价格和服务都不错，他们总是想要替代方案的，而不仅仅是依靠某个特定的来源。
BRIAN SANTO: Junko also sat down with Jean-Christophe Eloy, founder of the analyst firm Yole Developpement. She asked him how China should move forward.
BRIAN SANTO: Junko还与分析公司Yole Developpement的创始人Jean-Christophe Eloy进行了座谈。Junko询问他对中国应如何前进的看法。
JEAN-CHRISTOPHE ELOY: Huawei's doing that, but we have seen also other companies that are trying to do that in other fields in China, where the idea is that the master of the system, the access to the end customer, but they have to have internally their own supply chain with all the key devices, the key modules, the key technologies to be able to make a wise decision in terms of which technology to be used. And this is exactly contrary to what European companies or US companies are doing, which is using a supply chain and not to do that internally. But it is exactly what the Japanese companies are still doing and doing very successfully, like Toyota. Toyota is totally integrated. And I think it's a model that is very, very important for China at the moment, because this is a good way to make very short connections from the need of the market and the supply chain without too many layers in between.
JEAN-CHRISTOPHE ELOY: 华为正在这样做，同时我们也看到了其他试图在中国其他领域做到这一点的公司。他们想主导系统、终端客户，不过他们必须拥有自己的内部供应链，供应所有关键设备、关键模块、关键技术，从而能够根据所使用的技术做出明智决策。这与欧洲公司或美国公司的做法完全相反，他们选择使用外部而非内部的供应链。但这正是丰田等日本公司仍在采用的做法，并且做得非常成功。丰田做了完全的整合。我认为这是目前对中国来说非常重要的一种模式，因为这是一种很好的方法，可以根据市场需求和供应链建立非常短的联系，而无需在两者之间进行过多铺垫。
And this is, for me, a very key successful business model for China for the next ten years in order to be able to integrate everything, to make very good decisions on which technologies have to be manufactured in China, because it's important, driven by the market, the market needs. And to do that under the same umbrella, the same group of companies.
BRIAN SANTO: Right, right. Okay, that might be a more effective way to go about it.
BRIAN SANTO: 是的。好吧，这可能是更有效的解决方案。
JUNKO YOSHIDA: One of the things that I was told by several people, both analysts and industry executives in China, is that the biggest role The Big Fund played so far, and it will in the future, is that it's more of a confidence builder. Rather than having 50 different private funds investing here and there; that's what we're doing in the United States. If you actually collect all the money under the roof of The Big Fund, I don't know whether it works or not, but at least give them confidence that every chip company in China can feel assured that they are going to be part of this big ecosystem the Chinese government is trying to build.
JUNKO YOSHIDA: 中国的分析师们以及行业高管们都在告诉我同一件事——“大基金”迄今为止，且在将来也会发挥的最大作用——是给行业带来信心。 这不是拥有50个到处投钱的私人基金，就如我们在美国正在做的。实际上如果你将所有资金都放在“大基金”里，我不知道这个计划能否奏效，但至少可以给人们信心，让中国的每家芯片公司都可以感到放心，他们将会参与到中国政府正努力构建的大生态系统中。
BRIAN SANTO: A couple of other things Junko noted about The Big Fund: It’s essentially free money for the recipients, and the program is loosely managed. Poor accountability can often be a weakness.
BRIAN SANTO: 关于“大基金”，Junko指出其他几点值得注意的地方：本质上来说，该基金对于接受者来说是免费的，基金对项目的管理上有些松散。一个缺点是问责制度通常不佳。
That’s your Weekly Briefing for the week ending November 22nd. This podcast is Produced by AspenCore Studio. It was Engineered by Taylor Marvin and Greg McRae at Coupe Studios. The Segment Producer was Kaitie Huss.
这是截至11月22日的本周播报。该播客由AspenCore Studio制作。Coupe Studios的Taylor Marvin和Greg McRae担任设计。Kaitie Huss担任片段制作。
The transcript of this podcast can be found on EETimes.com, complete with links to the articles we refer to, along with photos and video. Check in with us in two weeks for a new edition of EE Times on Air. Have a Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. I’m Brian Santo.
EETimes.com上有本播客音频的文字版本，包含我们所引用文章的链接、照片和视频。请于两周后收听新一期EE Times on Air（本周末为美国感恩节假期）。 预祝大家感恩节快乐。我是Brian Santo。